A long time ago, a grade-schooler got his hands on a spaceship. He followed the assembly instructions as best he could, snapping on the cannons, the landing gear, the tiny interstellar-chess table. Soon enough, Rian Johnson was holding his very own Millennium Falcon. The first thing I did, he recalls, was throw it across the room, to see how it would look flying. He grins. And it broke.
Johnson grew up, went to film school, made some good stuff, including the entertainingly twisted 2012 sci-fi drama Looper. Hes nearly 44 now, though his cherub cheeks and gentle manner make it easy to picture the kid he was (too easy, maybe hes trying to grow back a goatee he shaved); even his neatly pressed short-sleeve button-down has a picture-day feel. In late October, hes sitting in an office suite inside Disneys Burbank studios that hes called home for many months, where a whiteboard declares, Were working on Star Wars: The Last Jedi (in case you forgot). Johnson is the films writer-director, which means he ended up with the worlds finest collection of replacement toys, including a life-size Falcon set that nearly brought him to tears when he stepped onto it. He treated it all with what sounds like an intriguing mix of reverence and mischief cast members keep saying nothing was quite what they expected. I shook up the box a little bit, he says, with that same grin.
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Meanwhile, back in the real world, everything is broken. In the months since the franchise stirred back to life in 2015s The Force Awakens, it has felt rather like some incautious child grabbed civilization itself and threw it across the room and, midflight, many of us realized we were the evil Empire all along, complete with a new ruler that even latter-day George Lucas at his most CGI-addled would reject as too grotesque and implausible a character.
Weirdly, the saga saw it all coming or maybe its not so weird when you consider the Vietnam War commentary embedded in Lucas original trilogy, or the warnings about democracys fragility in his prequels. In the J.J. Abrams-directed The Force Awakens, a revanchist movement calling itself the First Order assembles in Triumph of the Will-style marches, showing the shocking strength of an ideology that was supposed to have been thoroughly defeated long ago. Whats left of the government is collapsing and feckless, so the only hope in sight is a band of good guys known as the Resistance. Familiar, this all sounds.
Its somewhat a reflection of society, acknowledges the sagas new star, Daisy Ridley, who plays Rey, and who has gone from unknown London actress to full-blown movie star nearly as fast as her character went from desert scavenger to budding Jedi. But also it is escapism, because there are creatures and there are people running around with fucking lasers and shit. So, I think, a wonderful mix of both.
And the worse the world gets, the more we need that far-off galaxy, says Gwendoline Christie, who plays stormtrooper honcho Captain Phasma (as well as Game of Thrones Brienne of Tarth): During testing times, theres nothing wrong with being transported by art. I think we all need it. Many of us are united in our love for this one thing.
The Last Jedi, due December 15th, is the second episode of the current trilogy, and advance word has suggested that, as in the original middle film, The Empire Strikes Back, things get darker this time. But Johnson pushes back on that, though he does admit some influence from the morally ambiguous 2000s reboot of Battlestar Galactica (which is funny, because Lucas considered the Seventies TV show a rip-off and urged a lawsuit long since settled against it). Thats one thing I hope people will be surprised about with the movie, Johnson says. I think its very funny. The trailers have been kind of dark the movie has that, but I also made a real conscious effort for it to be a riot. I want it to have all the things tonally that I associate with Star Wars, which is not just the Wagner of it. Its also the Flash Gordon.
As of late October, almost no one has seen it yet, but Johnson seems eerily free of apprehension about its prospects. He exuded a similar calm on set, according to Adam Driver, who plays Han and Leias Darth Vader-worshipping prodigal son, Kylo Ren. If I had that job, I would be stressed out, he says. To pick up where someone left off and carry it forward, but also introduce a vocabulary that hasnt been seen in a Star Wars movie before, is a tall order and really hard to get right. Hes incredibly smart and doesnt feel the need to let everyone know it. (It felt like we were playing the whole time, says Kelly Marie Tran, cast as the biggest new character, Rose Tico.) A few weeks after we talk, Lucasfilm announces that Johnson signed on to make three more Star Wars films in the coming decade, the first that step outside of the prevailing Skywalker saga, indicating that Disney and Lucasfilm matriarch Kathleen Kennedy are more than delighted with Last Jedi. And Kennedys not easily delighted, having recently replaced the directors of a Han Solo spinoff midshoot and removed original Episode 9 director Colin Trevorrow in favor of Abrams return.
The Force Awakens biggest triumph was the introduction of new characters worth caring about, led by Rey and Kylo Ren, plus the likes of John Boyegas stormtrooper-defector Finn, Oscar Isaacs Poe Dameron and more. Kylo Ren (born Ben Solo) lightsaber-shanked Harrison Fords Han, depriving Johnson of one coveted action figure but the film left us with Carrie Fishers Princess Leia, now the general who leads the Resistance, and the climactic reveal of Mark Hamills now-grizzled Luke Skywalker.
The Last Jedi will be Fishers last Star Wars movie. In the waning days of the cruel year of 2016, she went into cardiac arrest on an airplane, dying four days later. Less than a month afterward, 500,000 or so people assembled in Washington, D.C., for that citys Womens March, and Leia was everywhere, in posters bearing her doughnut-haired image circa 1977, with accompanying slogans (A Womans Place Is in the Resistance was, perhaps, the best).
Johnson had grown close with Fisher, and is glad to hear that I visited her psychedelically decorated Beverly Hills house a couple of years back, where she did almost an entire hilarious interview prone in bed. Afterward, she cheerily cracked jokes about drugs and mental illness in front of a visiting Disney publicist. You got to experience a little bit of that magical sphere that she created, says Johnson, who went over the script with her in that same bedroom. Im happy I got to poke my head into that, briefly, and know her even a little bit.
He left her part in the film untouched. We didnt end up changing a thing, says Johnson. Luckily, we had a totally complete performance from her. So it is now Abrams who has to figure out how to grapple with Fisher and Leias sudden absence. (He is characteristically gnomic on the matter: Its a sad reality, he says. In terms of going forward time will tell what ends up getting done.)
Overall, Johnson enjoyed what seems like an almost unfathomable level of autonomy in shaping The Last Jedis story. He says no one dictated a single plot point, that he simply decided what happens next. And hes baffled by fans who are concerned by the idea that theyre making it up as we go along: The truth is, stories are made up! Whether somebody made this whole thing up 10 years ago and put it on a whiteboard and we all have to stick to that, or whether were organically finding it as we move forward, it doesnt mean that any less thought is being put into it.
Mark Hamills single scene in The Force Awakens lasts all of one minute, and he doesnt say a thing. But its an indelible piece of screen acting with real gravitas, from an underrated performer who had become better known for Broadway and voice-over work hes been the definitive animated Joker since the early Nineties. (With voice-over, Hamill says, I thought, This is great! I can let myself go to hell physically! I dont have to memorize lines!') As Rey approaches him on the lonely mountaintop wheres hes presumably spent years studying the Jedi equivalent of the Talmud, Luke Skywalkers bearded face cycles through grief, terror and longing.
I didnt look at that as Oh, this is going to be my big chance,' says Hamill, who has just shown up at Johnsons offices and plopped down next to him, carrying a large thermos of coffee in the right hand that Darth Vader once chopped off. He has a trimmed-down version of his elder-Jedi beard, which hes grown to appreciate: I shaved, and I thought, You know what, the beard does cover up the jowl.'
Hamill is a charming, jittery chatterbox turns out that even at his youngest and prettiest, he was a geek trapped in the body of a golden boy. He is excitable and wild-eyed enough to give the vague sense that, like Luke, he actually might have spent a few solitary years on a distant planet, and is still readjusting to Earth life, or at least movie stardom.
He admits to having had frustrations over being over-associated with Star Wars over the years his Skywalking cost him a chance at even auditioning to reprise his stage role as Mozart in the film of Amadeus but nothing that caused me any deep anguish. He still spent the decades since Return of the Jedi acting and raising a family with Marilou, his wife of 39 years. And as for his current return to the role of Luke? Its a culmination of my career, he says. If I focused on how enormous it really is, I dont think I could function. I told Rian that. I said, as absurd as it sounds, Im going to have to pretend this is an art-house film that no one is going to see.
Its somewhat a reflection of society. But also it is escapism, because
there are creatures and there are people running around with fucking
lasers and shit. So, I think, a wonderful mix of both.
-Daisy Ridley
For his Force Awakens scene, he says, I didnt know and I dont think J.J. really knew specifically what had happened in those 30 years. Honestly, what I did was try and give J.J. a range of options. Neutral, suspicion, doubt taking advantage of the fact that its all thoughts. I love watching silent films. Think of how effective they could be without dialogue.
Abrams had some trepidation over the idea of handing Hamill a script with such a tiny role. The last thing I wanted to do was insult a childhood hero, he says, but I also knew it was potentially one of the great drumrolls of all time. In fact, Hamills first reaction was, What a rip-off, I dont get to run around the Death Star bumping heads with Carrie and Harrison anymore!
But he came to agree with Abrams, especially after he counted the number of times Luke was mentioned in the screenplay he thinks it was more than 50: I dont want to say, Thats the greatest entrance in cinematic history . . . but certainly the greatest entrance of my career.
Johnson turns to Hamill. Did I ever tell you that early on when I was trying to figure out the story for this, he says, I had a brief idea I was chasing where I was like, What if Luke is blind? What if hes, like, the blind samurai? But we didnt do it. Youre welcome. Didnt stick. (He adds that this was before a blind Force-using character showed up in 2016s side film Rogue One.)
Hamill laughs, briefly contemplating how tough that twist wouldve been: Luke, not too close to the cliff!
He had a hard enough time with the storyline Johnson actually created for Luke, who is now what the actor calls a disillusioned Jedi. This is not a joyful story to tell, Hamill says, my portion of it. Johnson confirms that Hamill flat-out told him at the start that he disagreed with the direction Lukes character was taking. We then started a conversation, says Johnson. We went back and forth, and after having to explain my version, I adjusted it. And I had to justify it to myself, and that ended up being incredibly useful. I felt very close to Mark by the end. Those early days of butting heads and then coming together, that process always brings you closer.
Hamill pushed himself to imagine how Luke couldve gotten to his place of alienation. A rock fan whos buddies with the Kinks Dave Davies, Hamill started thinking about shattered hippie dreams as he watched a Beatles documentary. I was hearing Ringo talk about Well, in those days, it was peace and love. And how it was a movement that largely didnt work. I thought about that. Back in the day, I thought, by the time we get into power, there will be no more wars. Pot will be legal. He smiles at that part. I believed all that. I had to use that feeling of failure to relate to it. (We do already know that Luke was training a bunch of Jedi, and Kylo Ren turned on him.)
Hamills grief over the loss of Fisher is still fresh, especially since the two of them got to renew their bond, and their space-sibling squabbling, after fallow decades that had given them far fewer reasons to get together. There was now a comfort level that she had with me, he says, that I wasnt out to get anything or trying to hustle her in any way. I was the same person that I was when she knew me. I was sort of the square, stick-in-the-mud brother, and she was the wild, madcap Auntie Mame. Promoting the movie is bringing it all back for him. I just cant stand it, he says. Shes wonderful in the movie. But it adds a layer of melancholy we dont deserve. Id love the emotions to come from the story, not from real life.
I mention how hard Luke seems to have had it: never meeting his mom; finding the burnt corpses of the aunt and uncle who raised him; those well-known daddy issues; the later years of isolation. Its the life of a hero, man, says Johnson. Thats what youve gotta do to be a hero. Youve gotta watch people that you love burn to death!
Hamill notes that reality is not so great either. Sometimes, he says, softer than usual, you think, Id rather have Lukes life than mine.'
Adam Driver has a question for me. What, he asks, is emo?
Between training for the Marines and training at Juilliard to become one of his generations most extraordinary actors, Driver missed some stuff, including entire music genres. But the rest of the world (including an amusing parody Twitter account) decided theres something distinctly emo about his character, with his luxuriant hair, black outfits and periodic temper tantrums. You have someone whos being told that hes special his whole life, Driver says of his character, and he can feel it. And he feels everything probably more intensely than the people around him, you know?
As anyone whos seen Driver in practically anything, even Girls, could tell you, the actor himself seems to feel things more strongly than most. I dont think of myself as a particularly intense person, he says, possibly not unaware that he is making intense eye contact, and that his right knee is bouncing up and down with excess energy. I get obsessive about certain things and, like, enjoy the process of working on something. Hes in a Brooklyn cafe, on a tree-lined street, that seems to be his go-to spot for interviews. He arrived early, fresh from shooting the new Spike Lee movie, wearing a dark-blue sweater over black jeans and high-top Adidas. Driver has a certainty to him, a steel core, thats a little intimidating, despite his obvious affability and big, near-constant laugh. Its not unlike talking to Harrison Ford, who played his dad. Until Drivers character murdered him.
Driver, raised by his mom and preacher stepdad after his parents divorced when he was seven, doesnt flinch when I suggest his own father issues might be at work. I dont know that its always that literal, he says. He mentions that Kylo Ren also murders Max Van Sydows character, who was sort of a distant uncle to him. No one asks me, So you have a distant-uncle problem?
John Boyega told me in 2015 that Driver stayed in character on set, but that seems to be not quite true. Driver just tries to keep focused on his characters emotions in the face of an environment he cant help but find ridiculous. Watching Star Wars, its an action-adventure, he says. But shooting it, its a straight comedy. Stormtroopers trying to find a bathroom. People dressed as trolls, like, running into doorways. Its hilarious. And when he wears his helmet, he cant see very well. Youre supposed to be very stealth, and a tree root takes you down.
Its not like people werent living on the Death Star isnt that also an act of terrorism? Did they not have
families? I see how people can point to examples that make themselves feel theyre right.
-Adam Driver
He refuses to see his character as bratty. There is a little bit of an elitist, royalty thing going on, he says, reminding us that the characters estranged mom is the princess. I think hes aware of maybe the privilege. He does acknowledge playing Kylo Ren younger than his own age of 34: I dont want to say how much younger, cause people will read into it. . . . He flushes, and later says he regrets mentioning it at all. If its a plot spoiler, its unclear exactly how, unless its related to his unexplained connection to Rey. The two apparently spend serious time together in this film. The relationship between Kylo and Rey is awesome, says Ridley, whom Driver calls a great scene partner, apparently one of his highest compliments.
At first, Driver wasnt totally sure he wanted to be in a Star Wars movie. Im always skeptical of Hollywood movies because theyre mostly just too broad, he says. But Abrams pitch, emphasizing the uniqueness of Kylo Rens character as a conflicted villain, made the sale. Everything about him from the outside is designed to project the image that hes assured, he says. Only in private can he acknowledge how un-figured-out he is how weak.
Driver can make a passionate case for why Kylo Ren isnt actually a villain at all.
Its not like people werent living on the Death Star, he says, his brown eyes shifting from puppyish to fierce without warning. He seems almost in character now. Isnt that also an act of terrorism against the hundreds of thousands of people who died there? Did they not have families? I see how people can point to examples that make themselves feel theyre right. And when you feel in your bones that youre supported by a higher power on top of that, and youre morally right, theres no limit to what youll do to make sure that you win. Both sides feel this way.
Youre starting to talk me into joining the Empire, I say. He laughs and shifts his delivery one degree over the top. So, the rebels are bad, he says, connecting his fist with the table. I strongly believe this!
On an extravagantly rainy Thursday evening in Montreal, Im sitting at crowded, noisy Le Vin Papillon, a wine bar ranked as Canadas fourth-best restaurant, holding a seat for a Jedi. Ridley arrives right on time, in a fuzzy faux-fur coat and a jumper dress the dregs of my wardrobe, she says. Her shortish hair is in a Rey-ish topknot that makes her way too recognizable, but she doesnt care. This is how I have always had my hair, says Ridley. I am not going to change it. Shes been in Montreal for three months, shooting a Doug Liman-directed sci-fi movie called Chaos Walking which is a little bit chaotic, in that were writing as we go and everything, she says. Ive realized I dont work well with that.
Shes on the second of two unexpected days off thanks to co-star Tom Holland (a.k.a the latest Spider-Man) suffering an impacted wisdom tooth, but shes still deeply exhausted.
I need a [vitamin] B shot in my ass, she muses, in the kind of upscale British accent that makes curses sound elegant. It seems already clear that typecasting wont pose the kind of problem for her that it did for the likes of Hamill and Fisher. Instead, shes just busy in a way that only a freshly minted 25-year-old movie star could be and she still managed to fulfill a pre-fame plan to go back to college for a semester last year. I have no control in my life at all, she says. She has four movies on the way, not even counting the Liman one. So there is a lot going on, and I have never had to deal with that before. I dont think my brain can really keep up with what is going on. She has full-blown night terrors: I wake up and scream.
Rey had an epochal moment in the last movie, claiming her lightsaber from the snowy ground, and with it, her power, her destiny, her place at the center of the narrative. Her turn. Ridley is still absorbing what that moment, and that character, mean to women and little girls. But she definitely felt more pressure this time around, especially because last time, it was all so insane, it felt like a dream, she says. I remember saying to Rian, I am so fucking neurotic on this one. I was like, I am going to fuck this up. All these people think this thing. How do I do that thing?
Part of the problem may have been Ridleys tendency to downplay what she pulled off in the first movie. Her heart-tugging solo scenes in the first act, especially the moment where she eats her sad little one half portion of green space bread, created enormous goodwill, in seconds, for a character no one had seen before. She mentions Harrison Fords effusive praise for that eating scene, to the point where he was getting emotional. I dont know, she says with a shrug, ultimately giving credit for the impact to Abrams and the movies cinematographer, Dan Mindel. I was just eating!
But in other ways, Rey has given her confidence. On her current film,
she says, she was offered a stunt double for a scene where a door would
swing open and knock her back. She took Liman aside and said, Doug, I
dont need a stunt double to do that. And I thought, I dont know if
this wouldve happened if it was Tom Holland.'
Unlike almost everyone else in the world, Ridley has known for years who Reys parents are, since Abrams told her on the set of The Force Awakens. Ridley believes that nothing ever changed: I thought what I was told in the beginning is what it is. Which is odd, because Johnson insists he had free rein to come up with any answer he wanted to the question. I wasnt given any directive as to what that had to be, he says. I was never given the information that she is this or she is that.
The idea that Johnson and Abrams somehow landed on the same answer does seem to suggest that Reys parents arent some random, never-before-seen characters. All that said, Abrams cryptically hints there may have been more coordination between him and Johnson than the latter director has let on, so who knows whats going on here they may be messing with us to preserve one of Abrams precious mystery boxes. In any case, Ridley loves the speculation: Her favorite fan theories involve immaculate conception and time travel. It seems more likely that shes either Lukes daughter or his niece, but again, who knows.
Back in 2015, Ridley told me she was fine with the idea of being seen as Rey forever, the way Fisher was always Leia. Now shes changed her mind. There are literally no similarities with Carries story and mine, she says, adding that while Fisher ultimately embraced writing over acting, she plans on continuing to inhabit as many characters as possible. On the other hand, a lot of Rey is me, she says, but that is not me being Rey. That is parts of me being a character as Rey, because how could it not? So in that sense, I understand it, because so much of Leia is Carrie.
This trilogy will end with Abrams Last Jedi sequel, and after that, it sounds like the main thrust of the franchise will move into Johnsons mysterious new movies, which look to be unconnected to the previous saga. As Abrams sees it, that will be the end of the Skywalker story. I do see it that way, he says. But the future is in flux.
As far as Ridley is concerned, the future of Rey is pretty much set. She doesnt want to play the character after the next movie. No, she says flatly. For me, I didnt really know what I was signing on to. I hadnt read the script, but from what I could tell, it was really nice people involved, so I was just like, Awesome. Now I think I am even luckier than I knew then, to be part of something that feels so like coming home now.
But, um, doesnt that sort of sound like a yes? No, she says again, smiling a little. No, no, no. I am really, really excited to do the third thing and round it out, because ultimately, what I was signing on to was three films. So in my head, its three films. I think it will feel like the right time to round it out.
And how about coming back in 30 years, as her predecessors did? She considers this soberly, between bites of Brussels sprouts roasted on the stalk. (We split the dish, which means she got one half portion.) Who knows? I honestly feel like the world may end in the next 30 years, so, if in 30 years we are not living underground in a series of interconnected cells then sure. Maybe. But again, its like, who knows. Because the thing I thought was so amazing, was people really wanted it. And it was done by people who really love it.
She thinks even harder about it, this new Star Wars trilogy that weve made up on the spot. How old will I be? she asks, before doing the math. 55. She looks very young for a moment, as she tries to picture herself as a middle-aged Jedi. Then she gives up. Its time to go, anyway; she has a 5:25 a.m. pickup tomorrow for her new movie. Fuck, Ridley says. I cant think that far ahead.
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